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Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE
Document 745
Filed 08/10/22
Page 1 of 264
407
LCLVMAX1
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK
x
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA,
Vv. 20 CR 330 (AJN)
GHISLAINE MAXWELL,
Defendant. Jury Trial
x
New York, N.Y.
December 1, 2021
S¢50 a.M.
Before:
HON. ALISON J. NATHAN,
District Judge
APPEARANCES
DAMIAN WILLIAMS
United States Attorney for the
Southern District of New York
BY: MAURENE COMEY
ALISON MOE
LARA POMERANT
ANDREW ROHRBACH
Assistant United States Attorneys
HADDON MORGAN AND FOREMAN
Attorneys for Defendant
BY: JEFFREY S. PAGLIUCA
CHRISTIAN R. EVERDELL
LAURA A. MENNINGER
-and-
BOBBI C. STERNHEIM
-and-—
RENATO STABILE
Also Present: Amanda Young, FB
Paul Byrne, NYPD
Sunny Drescher,
Paralegal, U.S. Attorney's Office
Ann Lundberg,
Paralegal, Haddon Morgan and Foreman
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
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Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 745 Filed 08/10/22 Page 2 of 264 408
LC1VMAX1
(Trial resumed; jury not present)
THE COURT: All right. Matters to take up, counsel,
includes the Rule 16/608, as see it, issue. And then I want
to see where you are in terms of working out anticipated
personal identifying information of witnesses who I've given
permission to testify under pseudonyms to protect their
privacy.
So let's begin.
Ms. Menninger, did you want to begin with the Rule 16
issue?
MS. MENNINGER: think Mr. Everdell was going to
handle that piece.
THE COURT: Okay.
Ms. Comey, are you taking this?
MR. ROHRBACH: I'm taking this one, your Honor.
THE COURT: You all swapped off
So I think the defense is clearly right that if we are
talking by impeachment by contradiction, that is to say,
impeachment, direct contradiction of something testified to on
the stand, it's not required to be disclosed as case-in-chief
material under Rule 16; and depending on what it is, it's
likely not 608 because it's impeachment by contradiction, not
impeachment to show -- extrinsic evidence to show a character
for dishonesty and the like.
So the question is whether it's impeachment or not.
SOUTHERN
D
STR
CT REPORT
(212)
805-0300
BRS, Pes
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Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE
Document 745
Filed 08/10/22
Page 3 of 264 409
LC1VMAX1
And I still don't fully understand the photograph of the street
that the witness read the line from saying, That's the address
where we lived, how that's impeachment. That remains an open
question in my mind.
But otherwise, Mr. Rohrbach, do you disagree with
anything I've just said as to the state of the law?
MR. ROHRBACH: No, think that that's a correct
statement of the law, your Honor.
The issue with the photograph is it wasn't established
that that satisfied any of the theories of impeachment; and so
if the defense is offering it for some other purpose, that
purpose would be part of the defense's case-in-chief and,
therefore, subject to Rule 16 or an attack on the witness's
character for truthfulness, which would be barred by 608.
THE COURT: Right.
But the, I'll charitably call it, theory offered
yesterday that anything that's not part of the case-in-chief
somehow then falls under 608 as extrinsic, you've walked away
from that.
MR. ROHRBACH: Yes the theory really is that it has
to satisfy some proper basis of impeachment for extrinsic
evidence. So it's true that there are more than two paths,
yes, your Honor.
THE COURT: All right. So just to get to the
photograph, as see it, the witness's testimony -- and tell
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
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Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE
LCLVMAX1
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Document 745
Filed 08/10/22 Page 4 of 264 410
family in a pool
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THE
COURT:
Right.
ust said,
I don't know if this is Mr. Everdell or Ms. Menninger.
MR. EVERDELL: It's me, your Honor.
THE COURT: Okay.